Admire your capacity to heal quickly as I am still smarting a bit today.
100% agree that the 8 need to STFU. I heard Angus King say that standing up to Donald Trump doesn’t work. I thought my head was going to explode. What a tone deaf, out of touch, destructive thing to say to the millions of activists who have been protesting, canvassing, fundraising, phone banking, voting, and winning. Angus, GET OUT OF THE WAY.
We are now forced to move on. I hope the Democrats have better strategists and media savvy members taking over. Not holding my breath.
I heard Angus King this morning and reacted the same as you! Thankfully, my Democratic senators are not for this and are working hard on our behalf. I'm not letting 8+1 bad apples spoil the whole bunch for me. Besides, the truth is that I'll vote for the rabbit in my backyard before I'd ever vote for a Republicn.
I am in complete accord with everything you wrote this morning, Dan. The Press is eager to embark on weeks of their favorite "Dems in disarray" humbug. I'm no happier than you are about the climbdown, but since our primary objective is to save our democracy, the last thing we need is involve ourselves in internal spats which the Press will blow out of all proportions.
Too bad The Cowardly Eight didn’t think of the DNC when they took that vote. I am 100% less likely to donate my hard earned dollars (that I will now need for my healthcare premium anyway) to a party in which I can’t trust those elected to represent me to actually represent me. Tim Kaine has been sending this NJ resident a fundraising email a day. Yesterday he got a big fat unsubscribe.
Hi Dan, I know I will be unpopular here, but I have a different take on things. You mention, at the end of your posting, that next year no one will remember the way the shutdown ended, and that is actually key to my perspective.
You noted this, which also makes sense: " Let me stipulate up front: I highly doubt the promised vote to extend the Obamacare tax credits will pass, and even if it does, it seems even more unlikely that the House would take it up, let alone pass it."
"This is now a messaging campaign. It is an opportunity to make sure that every American knows two things: Republicans raised their premiums and Democrats tried to stop them."
Anyway here is my perspective, which I give knowing that neither I nor anyone else has a crystal ball. Meaning, I certainly could be wrong....
The R's were never -- I repeat. never -- going to relent on extending the ACA subsidies. Your post above suggests that, and it's what I happen to believe. The R's also seemed to be quite comfortable with continuing the shutdown. I'm not at all sure they were as "panicked" as some media sources said they were.
Meanwhile, the shutdown was (has been) growing steadily more painful, with air travel increasingly difficult and hazardous, and families of furloughed workers in increasingly more desperate straits. Already, my sister thinks both parties are a disaster because of the continued shutdown. She is a typical voter -- hates Trump but doesn't really follow politics. Again, I don't have a crystal ball, but I do honestly believe that if the shutdown kept dragging on into the holidays eventually the voters would start blaming both parties.
The Dems did get something, if I recall correctly -- reinstatement of those laid off and a promise of back pay. Meanwhile, the R's are now totally 'on the hook' for whether a bill authorizing continuation of the ACA subsidies is ever passed or not.
I do understand the anger and the perspective that Dems were in a good place to keep on holding out. I especially understand anger from those who will be affected by the loss of the subsidies. But since I honestly don't believe the R's would ever have relented on that point, I am left with the belief that Dems tried to do something to end the growing pain of the shutdown while baiting the hook for R's to totally 'own' whether the ACA subsidies are ever renewed or not.
Because there are different ways this could have played out, I am hoping that Dems will pull together and move forward, because this intra-party war could really hurt us badly in the mid-terms. Yes, we do need to elect more progressives! But I am angrier at Gillibrand than I am at Shumer, because she authored (co-authored?) the GENIUS Act.
Dan admits that we will be here again. And we can say again, we are trying to get these clowns to help with the subsidies. And let them be indifferent again…
What was the preferred exit strategy if the GOP gives no cares about healthcare? Did we miss out on maximal pain for them? Who knows? in due time we get to make them look like imbeciles again.
Thank you, DJ! There are no easy answers here, when dealing with sociopaths like today's R's. My 'take' could end up being totally wrong, too. Many smart people are having varied reactions and perspectives... it may be too soon to tell what the Dems should have -- or could have -- done....
It seems we’re a political party that needs constant reminding to focus our fire on Republicans, not each other. Which you did—for about 25% of your message. The other 75%, you beat up on Democrats.
The shutdown was a hostage negotiation. And there were plenty of hostages who were fearful of financial strain, hunger, cold, and the growing hazard of air travel. MAGA had demonstrated a complete willingness to shoot the hostages. So, we were going to win?
No. In the modern era, there is no precedent of the shutdown party successfully extracting major legislative concessions.
As I read claims that “you just need to fight harder,” history says otherwise: shutdowns are a losing weapon. And that “fight harder” phrase always reminds me of Demi Moore’s line in A Few Good Men: “Your Honor, I STRENUOUSLY object”.
Who actually remembers voting one way or the other because of how a shutdown played out? No one.
Who remembers voting over the issue that caused the shutdown? Plenty of us. And on those issues Democrats are the clear winners — and these are big issues.
Republicans made health care unaffordable for millions so they could fund tax cuts for their wealthy donors. They literally took food assistance away from the poorest families, and then went all the way to the Supreme Court to stop Democrats from fixing that cruelty. They cut Medicaid benefits — mostly from their own voters.
And that’s just this week.
If Democratic candidates can’t turn that into winning messages, then what are we even doing here? This is political malpractice. These are kitchen-table issues affecting real people, right now, and we should be winning this argument every single day.
Let’s not be Stalin—starting a war by purging the army. If you don’t like Schumer, tell your Senator to vote for someone else as leader. That’s democracy. But turning on each other mid-fight only helps Republicans.
Because as angry as anyone is at “the eight,” it was Republicans who put the country at risk. They engineered the cruelty. They did the damage. That’s where the outrage belongs.
This helped me a lot in preventing my anger from fully boiling over, but no promises that holds. I sincerely hope Dems take a similar tack as you outlined, it's at least something representatives of my party can do without a fraction of it dragging down the rest. In a way it's similar to how I came down from the Presidential election loss: if my party has failed at harm reduction and incremental change we'll need to work to make the pendulum swing harder for when (if) its in power again. This doesn't have to be a Democrat failure, it can be a Republican + 8 failure
Good points, Val... and I'm hoping you and everyone will remember that Dems didn't necessarily 'fail at harm reduction' because they had no control whatsoever over what R's chose to do or not do. Yes, they could have held out longer -- I do agree with that -- but holding out carried its own risks, with the holidays approaching. Also, if the R's had been the ones to cave, it's possible that by midterm time voters would have only remembered that the shutdown ended and they got their affordable healthcare. They might even have credited Trump for that.
I'd very briefly come back to the party after the elections. Watching the establishment try to screw Mamdani through the most racist campaign in my life validated all the lack of faith I've had in my party this century, but we beat them. Just like in 08.
Nope. Schumer got bribed by donors worried about the holidays to kill us all. Again. That man needs to be in prison ASAP. For treason, war crimes, and grotesque corruption. Hopefully before someone bribes him to kill more Americans.
I’m also angry about the cave in but, with the Supreme Court siding with Trump over stopping SNAP benefits, I could not let the kids go hungry. They were never going to give in. I think it shows the empathy and love for kids the Democrats have, and not playing politics.
Reportedly, Angus King explained his vote by saying “standing up to Trump doesn’t work.” We are being held hostage by leadership and delusional senators who don’t have the stomach for battle. Keeping their mouths shut won’t add an infusion of courage.
“Well, there were two — I talked about the whole purpose of the shutdown was to bring forward these health-care issues. … The shutdown was a success in the sense that I think it has focused national attention on the issue of health care and the importance of these premium tax credits. So, I think in that sense, it’s really spoken to people about what’s coming if these tax credits aren’t extended … the importance of health care is and how expensive it is. That was a shutdown.
But the other point was to stand up to Trump. OK. I get that. … The question is, does the shutdown — is the shutdown really standing up to Trump? Because what the shutdown did, and we now know this with what they’ve done about SNAP, gave him more power than he had before. And I don’t understand the principle of standing up to a bully by giving him another weapon to hit you over the head.”
What he might be saying is that shutdowns don’t work. Which seems to be a valid point. Because a shutdown has never gotten a winning decision for the party with demands.
I wish you would stop trashing the Democrat brand. It isnt helping. We didn't get the best outcome but we got an ok outcome and we're better off politically to help people in the future. That's what our message should be- still a win. Comments like yours are hurting, not helping. Maybe the pundits like you say outlandish things to get clicks and subscriptions....
It's wild that the movie quote I want to yell over & over again at Dem Senators is from Deadpool & Wolverine: “Shutting the fuck up is also free.”
I'd feel better about the tactical retreat if I thought there was a greater plan in place, or leaders who weren't bamboozled by the tactics of Tic Tac Toe. Schumer feels like the gambler in Vegas chasing losses, telling himself that when he hits it big he's going to stop (He will never hit it big).
What makes me angry is that they think we are too dumb to see through all of this. Schumer has to go
Exactly!
I wish the DNC would hire you for a year, and you could go in and reorganize their strategic and messaging strategy.
Admire your capacity to heal quickly as I am still smarting a bit today.
100% agree that the 8 need to STFU. I heard Angus King say that standing up to Donald Trump doesn’t work. I thought my head was going to explode. What a tone deaf, out of touch, destructive thing to say to the millions of activists who have been protesting, canvassing, fundraising, phone banking, voting, and winning. Angus, GET OUT OF THE WAY.
We are now forced to move on. I hope the Democrats have better strategists and media savvy members taking over. Not holding my breath.
I heard Angus King this morning and reacted the same as you! Thankfully, my Democratic senators are not for this and are working hard on our behalf. I'm not letting 8+1 bad apples spoil the whole bunch for me. Besides, the truth is that I'll vote for the rabbit in my backyard before I'd ever vote for a Republicn.
I am in complete accord with everything you wrote this morning, Dan. The Press is eager to embark on weeks of their favorite "Dems in disarray" humbug. I'm no happier than you are about the climbdown, but since our primary objective is to save our democracy, the last thing we need is involve ourselves in internal spats which the Press will blow out of all proportions.
"Next year, no one will remember the shutdown cave — but they will know that their premiums have gone up."
Seems right. Make the GOP pay for their choices.
Too bad The Cowardly Eight didn’t think of the DNC when they took that vote. I am 100% less likely to donate my hard earned dollars (that I will now need for my healthcare premium anyway) to a party in which I can’t trust those elected to represent me to actually represent me. Tim Kaine has been sending this NJ resident a fundraising email a day. Yesterday he got a big fat unsubscribe.
Hi Dan, I know I will be unpopular here, but I have a different take on things. You mention, at the end of your posting, that next year no one will remember the way the shutdown ended, and that is actually key to my perspective.
You noted this, which also makes sense: " Let me stipulate up front: I highly doubt the promised vote to extend the Obamacare tax credits will pass, and even if it does, it seems even more unlikely that the House would take it up, let alone pass it."
"This is now a messaging campaign. It is an opportunity to make sure that every American knows two things: Republicans raised their premiums and Democrats tried to stop them."
Anyway here is my perspective, which I give knowing that neither I nor anyone else has a crystal ball. Meaning, I certainly could be wrong....
The R's were never -- I repeat. never -- going to relent on extending the ACA subsidies. Your post above suggests that, and it's what I happen to believe. The R's also seemed to be quite comfortable with continuing the shutdown. I'm not at all sure they were as "panicked" as some media sources said they were.
Meanwhile, the shutdown was (has been) growing steadily more painful, with air travel increasingly difficult and hazardous, and families of furloughed workers in increasingly more desperate straits. Already, my sister thinks both parties are a disaster because of the continued shutdown. She is a typical voter -- hates Trump but doesn't really follow politics. Again, I don't have a crystal ball, but I do honestly believe that if the shutdown kept dragging on into the holidays eventually the voters would start blaming both parties.
The Dems did get something, if I recall correctly -- reinstatement of those laid off and a promise of back pay. Meanwhile, the R's are now totally 'on the hook' for whether a bill authorizing continuation of the ACA subsidies is ever passed or not.
I do understand the anger and the perspective that Dems were in a good place to keep on holding out. I especially understand anger from those who will be affected by the loss of the subsidies. But since I honestly don't believe the R's would ever have relented on that point, I am left with the belief that Dems tried to do something to end the growing pain of the shutdown while baiting the hook for R's to totally 'own' whether the ACA subsidies are ever renewed or not.
Because there are different ways this could have played out, I am hoping that Dems will pull together and move forward, because this intra-party war could really hurt us badly in the mid-terms. Yes, we do need to elect more progressives! But I am angrier at Gillibrand than I am at Shumer, because she authored (co-authored?) the GENIUS Act.
This👆
Acceptable, but many opponents to allowing the gop to run roughshod for another year perhaps more: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/2025/11/democrats-shutdown-mistake/684878/
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/a-quick-take-on-team-caves-big-win
https://www.thebulwark.com/p/give-chuck-schumer-a-break-it-could-have-been-worse-shutdown-deal?utm_source=bluesky&utm_medium=The+Bulwark&utm_campaign=publer
Dan admits that we will be here again. And we can say again, we are trying to get these clowns to help with the subsidies. And let them be indifferent again…
What was the preferred exit strategy if the GOP gives no cares about healthcare? Did we miss out on maximal pain for them? Who knows? in due time we get to make them look like imbeciles again.
Thank you, DJ! There are no easy answers here, when dealing with sociopaths like today's R's. My 'take' could end up being totally wrong, too. Many smart people are having varied reactions and perspectives... it may be too soon to tell what the Dems should have -- or could have -- done....
It seems we’re a political party that needs constant reminding to focus our fire on Republicans, not each other. Which you did—for about 25% of your message. The other 75%, you beat up on Democrats.
The shutdown was a hostage negotiation. And there were plenty of hostages who were fearful of financial strain, hunger, cold, and the growing hazard of air travel. MAGA had demonstrated a complete willingness to shoot the hostages. So, we were going to win?
No. In the modern era, there is no precedent of the shutdown party successfully extracting major legislative concessions.
As I read claims that “you just need to fight harder,” history says otherwise: shutdowns are a losing weapon. And that “fight harder” phrase always reminds me of Demi Moore’s line in A Few Good Men: “Your Honor, I STRENUOUSLY object”.
Who actually remembers voting one way or the other because of how a shutdown played out? No one.
Who remembers voting over the issue that caused the shutdown? Plenty of us. And on those issues Democrats are the clear winners — and these are big issues.
Republicans made health care unaffordable for millions so they could fund tax cuts for their wealthy donors. They literally took food assistance away from the poorest families, and then went all the way to the Supreme Court to stop Democrats from fixing that cruelty. They cut Medicaid benefits — mostly from their own voters.
And that’s just this week.
If Democratic candidates can’t turn that into winning messages, then what are we even doing here? This is political malpractice. These are kitchen-table issues affecting real people, right now, and we should be winning this argument every single day.
Let’s not be Stalin—starting a war by purging the army. If you don’t like Schumer, tell your Senator to vote for someone else as leader. That’s democracy. But turning on each other mid-fight only helps Republicans.
Because as angry as anyone is at “the eight,” it was Republicans who put the country at risk. They engineered the cruelty. They did the damage. That’s where the outrage belongs.
This helped me a lot in preventing my anger from fully boiling over, but no promises that holds. I sincerely hope Dems take a similar tack as you outlined, it's at least something representatives of my party can do without a fraction of it dragging down the rest. In a way it's similar to how I came down from the Presidential election loss: if my party has failed at harm reduction and incremental change we'll need to work to make the pendulum swing harder for when (if) its in power again. This doesn't have to be a Democrat failure, it can be a Republican + 8 failure
Good points, Val... and I'm hoping you and everyone will remember that Dems didn't necessarily 'fail at harm reduction' because they had no control whatsoever over what R's chose to do or not do. Yes, they could have held out longer -- I do agree with that -- but holding out carried its own risks, with the holidays approaching. Also, if the R's had been the ones to cave, it's possible that by midterm time voters would have only remembered that the shutdown ended and they got their affordable healthcare. They might even have credited Trump for that.
I'd very briefly come back to the party after the elections. Watching the establishment try to screw Mamdani through the most racist campaign in my life validated all the lack of faith I've had in my party this century, but we beat them. Just like in 08.
Nope. Schumer got bribed by donors worried about the holidays to kill us all. Again. That man needs to be in prison ASAP. For treason, war crimes, and grotesque corruption. Hopefully before someone bribes him to kill more Americans.
If Schumer was bribed by donors, I totally agree that he has to go. The biggest problem in politics is the reliance on Big Money. That has to stop.
I’m also angry about the cave in but, with the Supreme Court siding with Trump over stopping SNAP benefits, I could not let the kids go hungry. They were never going to give in. I think it shows the empathy and love for kids the Democrats have, and not playing politics.
Reportedly, Angus King explained his vote by saying “standing up to Trump doesn’t work.” We are being held hostage by leadership and delusional senators who don’t have the stomach for battle. Keeping their mouths shut won’t add an infusion of courage.
What he actually said:
“Well, there were two — I talked about the whole purpose of the shutdown was to bring forward these health-care issues. … The shutdown was a success in the sense that I think it has focused national attention on the issue of health care and the importance of these premium tax credits. So, I think in that sense, it’s really spoken to people about what’s coming if these tax credits aren’t extended … the importance of health care is and how expensive it is. That was a shutdown.
But the other point was to stand up to Trump. OK. I get that. … The question is, does the shutdown — is the shutdown really standing up to Trump? Because what the shutdown did, and we now know this with what they’ve done about SNAP, gave him more power than he had before. And I don’t understand the principle of standing up to a bully by giving him another weapon to hit you over the head.”
What he might be saying is that shutdowns don’t work. Which seems to be a valid point. Because a shutdown has never gotten a winning decision for the party with demands.
What did u think of JVL's take yesterday that the cave is not a total loss? Also Chuck needs to go. He's pathetic at this point.
I wish you would stop trashing the Democrat brand. It isnt helping. We didn't get the best outcome but we got an ok outcome and we're better off politically to help people in the future. That's what our message should be- still a win. Comments like yours are hurting, not helping. Maybe the pundits like you say outlandish things to get clicks and subscriptions....
It's wild that the movie quote I want to yell over & over again at Dem Senators is from Deadpool & Wolverine: “Shutting the fuck up is also free.”
I'd feel better about the tactical retreat if I thought there was a greater plan in place, or leaders who weren't bamboozled by the tactics of Tic Tac Toe. Schumer feels like the gambler in Vegas chasing losses, telling himself that when he hits it big he's going to stop (He will never hit it big).
Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you for this follow up. Exactly what we need. Let's get back to work.