I can't help but think that the tariffs are cover for the much more horrifying stuff taking place at Treasury, USAID, DoJ, GSA, OPM, etc. The Musk invasion is the real story.
Are you serious?! Musk is downloading Treasury data, cancelling payments and shuttering federal agencies and this is what you post today?! We are in the midst of a coup!
I trust that Dan is posting this (which he probably wrote on Wednesday or Thursday of last week & set to automatically post today) while he researches and writes a post related to Musk's illegal activities.
The grassroots organization Indivisible is all over this, organizing massive pressure campaigns as we speak on Senators from both parties. Please find and join your local group, and if there isn’t one, form it. Indivisible.org
That is not the greatest reply. Dan will write on that. The main goal of voters seemed to have been inflation. This is how we talk about the actual result of that stupid assumption. This is how we get to better midterms.
Oh come on, our country is in crisis and people here are talking about writing deadlines and prep time?! And of COURSE many of us have been contacting electeds including Schumer since last Friday (when the internal coup news broke wide open) and OF COURSE supporting Indivisible and taking part in their efforts. My point here is that we need to focus on what is obviously the most direct path toward the autocratic takeover and right now that is the coup. It would help if allies like PSA would align and shift gears quickly when necessary to help keep everyone focused.
I'm now asking myself - can you really have a functioning country where such a high % are functionally unreachable with information, where nothing breaks through either due to lack of attention, ignorance or apathy? Surely the basis of healthy democracies are citizens who are engaged enough to know when there is a problem and react to it.
Yep. Benjamin Franklin warned us about the need for civic engagement and knowledge needed to maintain a healthy Republic. He even imagined the corruptness that some would engage in. He did not imagine the congress and elected officials being the ones to ignore their elected privileges collectively. He did imagine a corrupt President. Thus the guardrails of the 3 independent branches of our government.
Right now I'm not seeing any light at the end of the tunnel. Musk is allowed to run amok, redirect and loot our treasury? And not a peep out of the patriots in Congress?!
We still have civic associations. The stuff of our social capital. They can be mobilized, with Congressional leadership and we can make our voices hear.
For everyone posting about Musk’s Treasury takeover: The grassroots organization Indivisible is all over this, organizing massive pressure campaigns as we speak on Senators from both parties. Please find and join your local group, and if there isn’t one, form it. Indivisible.org
I'm more interested in how to persuade congressional Democrats and upper-level party functionaries that our aspiring democracy is under serious attack. Any ideas? You know these people. I can't even imagine what they're thinking.
I will report that local news in Portland is reporting on the tariffs as having potential impact on raising prices in Oregon and cited a state economist who warned that they will have a bad impact on local jobs, especially those in tech. So they aren't softballing this, thank goodness. And I echo the concerns about Musk's minions and the treasury. This is purely an extraction presidency, and we can't assume Trump will try to govern in any way.
I don’t know if this is at all helpful, but whenever I hear about Trump wanting to fund the government through tariffs, I think of what life was like for working class Americans in the days when the federal government was funded by tariffs. Do we really want to go back to the nineteenth century?
No--but that is the point for Trump. Trump and the Heritage Foundation bunch believe that all we have to do is destroy the 1970s and 1960s and we can get to the 1950s. And that would then give us handle on completely obliterating the New Deal and FDR from our history. They are intent on burning the Civil Rights Movement from our memories.
Good point! No, we don’t. But yes, Trump absolutely does. Tariffs will increase the already disgusting wealth gap in the US. No doubt that’s one of his primary goals here.
Which was also when corporations had carte blanche to bust any sign of worker organizing. Union-busting has been a GOP priority since the Reagan administration.
Tariffs are a distant second on my mind, how about the fact that Musk literally hijacked the government’s computer systems, especially the State Department’s. A coup by an unelected individual not born in the USA. Anything?????
I am grateful to Dan for this analysis and effort to give us verbal tools. We will need them. Meanwhile, there is every reason to fear the seizure of power through the Treasury-along with the attack on the FBI. Yes--we need all the words we can get--and then some. At the same time, today is a dark day for American democracy. When are we going to do something to stop the carnage? Where is our leadership? Something of a coherent and comprehensive statement and plan would be really nice right now.
> It is tempting to defend our allies and talk about how Trump’s treatment of them affects our standing in the world. Do not do that. This argument is about prices, not international relations.
I understand your argument, and I agree that this is largely an economic wedge issue. But I disagree that this should be omitted entirely. If we don't bring it up, then we may successfully treat the symptom but not cure the underlying disease that has plagued this country for too long.
Framing it as breaking an American value - what America stands for (keeping promises, promoting peace and prosperity) - allows you to provide the connective tissue for other worthwhile ideas our side supports. To turn our back on our greatest ally who fought and died for our causes is, frankly, un-American - which makes Trump un-American.
I think the point is, in a narrowly-focused discussion with a Trump supporter, that the argument you urge will carry no weight at all. However, how tariffs affect our costs for groceries, fuel, and other purchases—while benefitting the rich—will carry weight.
Agree probably in terms of the MAGA base - but the values argument can't be entirely missing. Like it's always been the case that each American president could in theory use threats and extortion to eek concessions out of allies. That option has been open to all presidents so why haven't they done it? There is a risk that allies keep backing down and making concessions and voters don't see the harm in any of it because ultimately The Tariffs are not lasting and Trump gets what he wants. That's not really an ideal takeaway.
And we wonder why it’s difficult to orchestrate messaging for Democrats. Here an expert voice speaks and our response is, no, you must talk to your neighbors not in terms the expert says will reach them, but in ways that seem high-minded and lecturing.
People look to public leaders for guidance on how to feel about things they don't understand. Republicans predominantly use moral outrage all the time to great effect - we need to fight back on that front as well.
We aren't going to logic our way out of an illogical hole.
I too thought the WSJ was a way to reach MAGAs and was wrong. True story: MAGA family member liked economic news in the WSJ. However, when she was sent an article before the election with headline that economists say Trump tariffs would produce inflation (based on results of a survey of 60 economists), she blew up. I do not think she even got past the headline before reacting angrily. Confirmation bias got in the way, I think. I read the WSJ and reach out with alternative information in the comments section. Editorial Board's "Dumbest Tradewar Fallout Begins" was a pleasant surprise from the EB, not just the news reporters. Need lots of this to reach MAGAs. Repetition required by the WSJ, and MAGAs have to read, not react.
Thanks, Dan, for the great work. Anybody else wondering if this tariff campaign is just one more Trump scam? Wall Street is already starting to tank..which presumably Trump wants to avoid. But what if he and his criminal buddies just sold a bunch of stock when it was at an all time high three days ago, will buy a whole bunch more stock after the market crashes and then he’ll declare victory for whatever made-up reason, remove the tariffs and make a fortune on all the stocks they bought low when they rebound?
I’m sure he loves the leverage aspect as well, being a big cocky bully and everything.. and I’m quite sure he will actually make very serious but ridiculous moves towards obtaining Panama, Greenland and Canada, but in the meantime what are the chances he’s manipulating Wall Street for his own personal financial gain?
I look skeptically at anything Trump does. Because he's been allowed to say what he wants, regardless of facts and has a network fully dedicated to protecting his ability to lie to the people, why wouldn't he play fast and loose, throw spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks? When it doesn't work he's never called out or held accountable. It somehow will be Obama's fault.
But even more importantly, I look past his noise to see what he's trying to have us NOT look at. He's very transparent, I feel.
Wall Street has not taken a huge hit, yet. They are banking on this being a short term tariff war. Do they have some insider information??
WSJ commenters think tariff threat is just a negotiating tactic, and both Mexico and Canada will give in. Canada's fentanyl is microscopic, a few pounds. However, Canadians are pretty angry, so maybe they will go through with heavy duties on our CA wine, edible products, etc. Citizens are already removing US liquor from store shelves. Could get boycotts of American products.
I think they’re boycotting or taxing liquor from red states. I think Canadas response is brilliant.
If this is a tactic and Canada gives up anything, I’ll be disappointed. I detest having a President who behaves in this way. His people think he’s strong when in fact He’s like a bullying teenager.
Joining the Indivisible chorus. I protested outside Schumer's house last night and will go to his office this week. Everyone here concerned about the Musk-driven coup should get the action plans from Indivisible.org. At a minimum, call your rep & Senators and for the latter, demand they vote against Vought. And if you are rep'ed by Republicans, it's even more vital to call them.
I believe the tariff argument is important but ultimately premature. A lot of the election of Trump was shaped by high cost of living, so this has a high potential to blow up in his face. However, I think we should ultimately wait to toss this in Trump's lap until this becomes an active problem since 1) there's not much we can do about it and 2) people won't really care until they see the impact. As much as I would like us to focus on everything, I think there are bigger fires to highlight at this point (Musk being number 1 in my book), and we can't afford to lose the signal for the noise.
I can't help but think that the tariffs are cover for the much more horrifying stuff taking place at Treasury, USAID, DoJ, GSA, OPM, etc. The Musk invasion is the real story.
Yup. Ezra Klein: "Don't Believe Him" https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/02/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-trump-column-read.html?searchResultPosition=1
Are you serious?! Musk is downloading Treasury data, cancelling payments and shuttering federal agencies and this is what you post today?! We are in the midst of a coup!
I trust that Dan is posting this (which he probably wrote on Wednesday or Thursday of last week & set to automatically post today) while he researches and writes a post related to Musk's illegal activities.
Please save your outrage for Schumer.
Yes.
The grassroots organization Indivisible is all over this, organizing massive pressure campaigns as we speak on Senators from both parties. Please find and join your local group, and if there isn’t one, form it. Indivisible.org
Exactly. This is why my #1 question is "WTF are the congressional Democrats?"
Good question--same as mine!
That is not the greatest reply. Dan will write on that. The main goal of voters seemed to have been inflation. This is how we talk about the actual result of that stupid assumption. This is how we get to better midterms.
Oh come on, our country is in crisis and people here are talking about writing deadlines and prep time?! And of COURSE many of us have been contacting electeds including Schumer since last Friday (when the internal coup news broke wide open) and OF COURSE supporting Indivisible and taking part in their efforts. My point here is that we need to focus on what is obviously the most direct path toward the autocratic takeover and right now that is the coup. It would help if allies like PSA would align and shift gears quickly when necessary to help keep everyone focused.
I'm now asking myself - can you really have a functioning country where such a high % are functionally unreachable with information, where nothing breaks through either due to lack of attention, ignorance or apathy? Surely the basis of healthy democracies are citizens who are engaged enough to know when there is a problem and react to it.
Yep. Benjamin Franklin warned us about the need for civic engagement and knowledge needed to maintain a healthy Republic. He even imagined the corruptness that some would engage in. He did not imagine the congress and elected officials being the ones to ignore their elected privileges collectively. He did imagine a corrupt President. Thus the guardrails of the 3 independent branches of our government.
Right now I'm not seeing any light at the end of the tunnel. Musk is allowed to run amok, redirect and loot our treasury? And not a peep out of the patriots in Congress?!
We still have civic associations. The stuff of our social capital. They can be mobilized, with Congressional leadership and we can make our voices hear.
For everyone posting about Musk’s Treasury takeover: The grassroots organization Indivisible is all over this, organizing massive pressure campaigns as we speak on Senators from both parties. Please find and join your local group, and if there isn’t one, form it. Indivisible.org
I'm more interested in how to persuade congressional Democrats and upper-level party functionaries that our aspiring democracy is under serious attack. Any ideas? You know these people. I can't even imagine what they're thinking.
And many are weirdly not voting properly.
I will report that local news in Portland is reporting on the tariffs as having potential impact on raising prices in Oregon and cited a state economist who warned that they will have a bad impact on local jobs, especially those in tech. So they aren't softballing this, thank goodness. And I echo the concerns about Musk's minions and the treasury. This is purely an extraction presidency, and we can't assume Trump will try to govern in any way.
I don’t know if this is at all helpful, but whenever I hear about Trump wanting to fund the government through tariffs, I think of what life was like for working class Americans in the days when the federal government was funded by tariffs. Do we really want to go back to the nineteenth century?
No--but that is the point for Trump. Trump and the Heritage Foundation bunch believe that all we have to do is destroy the 1970s and 1960s and we can get to the 1950s. And that would then give us handle on completely obliterating the New Deal and FDR from our history. They are intent on burning the Civil Rights Movement from our memories.
Good point! No, we don’t. But yes, Trump absolutely does. Tariffs will increase the already disgusting wealth gap in the US. No doubt that’s one of his primary goals here.
Which was also when corporations had carte blanche to bust any sign of worker organizing. Union-busting has been a GOP priority since the Reagan administration.
Yes, Dan. More like this please.
It’s what I thought Message Box was going to be, a message factory for us progressives. A strategic function.
I’m well past the “commentating” from the sidelines that I feel has characterized a lot of Crooked podcasts lately.
You guys need to lead, and this is what it looks like. I will deliver the messages if you keep making them. Thank you.
Tariffs are a distant second on my mind, how about the fact that Musk literally hijacked the government’s computer systems, especially the State Department’s. A coup by an unelected individual not born in the USA. Anything?????
I am grateful to Dan for this analysis and effort to give us verbal tools. We will need them. Meanwhile, there is every reason to fear the seizure of power through the Treasury-along with the attack on the FBI. Yes--we need all the words we can get--and then some. At the same time, today is a dark day for American democracy. When are we going to do something to stop the carnage? Where is our leadership? Something of a coherent and comprehensive statement and plan would be really nice right now.
> It is tempting to defend our allies and talk about how Trump’s treatment of them affects our standing in the world. Do not do that. This argument is about prices, not international relations.
I understand your argument, and I agree that this is largely an economic wedge issue. But I disagree that this should be omitted entirely. If we don't bring it up, then we may successfully treat the symptom but not cure the underlying disease that has plagued this country for too long.
Framing it as breaking an American value - what America stands for (keeping promises, promoting peace and prosperity) - allows you to provide the connective tissue for other worthwhile ideas our side supports. To turn our back on our greatest ally who fought and died for our causes is, frankly, un-American - which makes Trump un-American.
I think the point is, in a narrowly-focused discussion with a Trump supporter, that the argument you urge will carry no weight at all. However, how tariffs affect our costs for groceries, fuel, and other purchases—while benefitting the rich—will carry weight.
Agree probably in terms of the MAGA base - but the values argument can't be entirely missing. Like it's always been the case that each American president could in theory use threats and extortion to eek concessions out of allies. That option has been open to all presidents so why haven't they done it? There is a risk that allies keep backing down and making concessions and voters don't see the harm in any of it because ultimately The Tariffs are not lasting and Trump gets what he wants. That's not really an ideal takeaway.
And we wonder why it’s difficult to orchestrate messaging for Democrats. Here an expert voice speaks and our response is, no, you must talk to your neighbors not in terms the expert says will reach them, but in ways that seem high-minded and lecturing.
People look to public leaders for guidance on how to feel about things they don't understand. Republicans predominantly use moral outrage all the time to great effect - we need to fight back on that front as well.
We aren't going to logic our way out of an illogical hole.
Again, herding cats.
Again, how hard is it to understand tariffs cause increased prices.
Love how Dan thinks any MAGA curious person would believe the Wall Street Journal is credible.
I too thought the WSJ was a way to reach MAGAs and was wrong. True story: MAGA family member liked economic news in the WSJ. However, when she was sent an article before the election with headline that economists say Trump tariffs would produce inflation (based on results of a survey of 60 economists), she blew up. I do not think she even got past the headline before reacting angrily. Confirmation bias got in the way, I think. I read the WSJ and reach out with alternative information in the comments section. Editorial Board's "Dumbest Tradewar Fallout Begins" was a pleasant surprise from the EB, not just the news reporters. Need lots of this to reach MAGAs. Repetition required by the WSJ, and MAGAs have to read, not react.
It’s frequently referenced on Fox. So maybe? Probably?
Thanks, Dan, for the great work. Anybody else wondering if this tariff campaign is just one more Trump scam? Wall Street is already starting to tank..which presumably Trump wants to avoid. But what if he and his criminal buddies just sold a bunch of stock when it was at an all time high three days ago, will buy a whole bunch more stock after the market crashes and then he’ll declare victory for whatever made-up reason, remove the tariffs and make a fortune on all the stocks they bought low when they rebound?
I’m sure he loves the leverage aspect as well, being a big cocky bully and everything.. and I’m quite sure he will actually make very serious but ridiculous moves towards obtaining Panama, Greenland and Canada, but in the meantime what are the chances he’s manipulating Wall Street for his own personal financial gain?
I look skeptically at anything Trump does. Because he's been allowed to say what he wants, regardless of facts and has a network fully dedicated to protecting his ability to lie to the people, why wouldn't he play fast and loose, throw spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks? When it doesn't work he's never called out or held accountable. It somehow will be Obama's fault.
But even more importantly, I look past his noise to see what he's trying to have us NOT look at. He's very transparent, I feel.
Wall Street has not taken a huge hit, yet. They are banking on this being a short term tariff war. Do they have some insider information??
WSJ commenters think tariff threat is just a negotiating tactic, and both Mexico and Canada will give in. Canada's fentanyl is microscopic, a few pounds. However, Canadians are pretty angry, so maybe they will go through with heavy duties on our CA wine, edible products, etc. Citizens are already removing US liquor from store shelves. Could get boycotts of American products.
I think they’re boycotting or taxing liquor from red states. I think Canadas response is brilliant.
If this is a tactic and Canada gives up anything, I’ll be disappointed. I detest having a President who behaves in this way. His people think he’s strong when in fact He’s like a bullying teenager.
Scary thought.
Fucking avocados. I can march for those! :)
Joining the Indivisible chorus. I protested outside Schumer's house last night and will go to his office this week. Everyone here concerned about the Musk-driven coup should get the action plans from Indivisible.org. At a minimum, call your rep & Senators and for the latter, demand they vote against Vought. And if you are rep'ed by Republicans, it's even more vital to call them.
I believe the tariff argument is important but ultimately premature. A lot of the election of Trump was shaped by high cost of living, so this has a high potential to blow up in his face. However, I think we should ultimately wait to toss this in Trump's lap until this becomes an active problem since 1) there's not much we can do about it and 2) people won't really care until they see the impact. As much as I would like us to focus on everything, I think there are bigger fires to highlight at this point (Musk being number 1 in my book), and we can't afford to lose the signal for the noise.