I disagree that there is no value in talking about the 25 amendment. Of course it can’t happen (until and unless it does, just like every other crazy fucking thing that has already happened), but getting the public comfortable with idea that Trump SHOULD be removed is valuable. Democrats affirming that idea is valuable. Fake it till you make it, just like they do. One thing that led to us being in this mess is a lack of imagination. No one could IMAGINE that the unserious idiot could be elected over the incredibly smart, qualified woman in 2016. And here we are (x2).
The problem is that the complicit media is not broadcasting how this govt. is gaslighting the public. The biggest threat to our national security is the corrupt cabal in the White House. So keep talking about the 25th amendment that won’t meet fruition-it still spotlights a feckless Republican Party.
Exactly! As Rebecca Solnit said in her recent piece (quoting Raskin, I think) - the impossible becomes inevitable when we continue to show up and persist. It's like they do with the 'Big Lie' - we do with the Big Truth - repeat - Trump is unfit and corrupt and needs to be removed via the 25th or impeachment - over and over until the impossible becomes something we can imagine, and then that imagined outcome begins to feel possible, then probable then - inevitable.
Pfeiffer once again with the coldest and blackest of bottom lines. Im so tired of the Democrats peddling fantastical scenarios I don’t know what to do with myself. We’ve seen what’s persuasive to voters, in New York, in Texas, in New Jersey etc. Talk about your new, practical ideas to make government work for people. Everything else is unhelpful.
Repeating 25A and/or Impeachment because Trump is insane puts it in the media's Overton window, hopefully to the point where we get "Biden is old" levels of coverage.
Yes neither are possible right now but impeachment and removal is a real possibility after the midterms. Repeating removal right now will set that up.
I look at it this way: 25th amendment is a tidy way to remind voters over and over and over that we should never normalize Trump‘s malignant narcissism coupled with his obvious dementia. There is way too much of a tendency by Democrats and the mainstream media to frame Trump‘s words and actions as, at best, the words and actions of a normal president, and at worst, Trump just “being Trump.“ Neither frame is acceptable, and frankly makes the United States an international joke. Yesterday, both voters and people around the world finally got to hear at least some Americans in positions of power acknowledging that we know that the president is a raving lunatic who is unfit for office. I say we keep it up and don’t let Republicans ignore it or brush it off.
We're now 3 generations from the last world war. Our voters no longer know what war crimes are or think its a meaningful distinction. Similarly many voters are so used to Trump that his actions seems normal. So i think it helps to remind voters we must draw a line. we have a duty to consider what is unacceptable.
This is spot-on. The 25th amendment talk is like the impeachment talk - it's letting the voters off the hook. The American people voted him in (yeah, i know it was no one reading this who cast a ballot for him) we shall have to collectively resolve this through our selection of Congress.
How does the process of committing war crimes work? How is a leader officially branded war criminal? And if that leader is visiting a European nation can he be arrested on that soil? I know I’m probably just reaching for hope. Putin can’t set foot in the European Union, Canada, Brazil,Japan and Australia.
War crimes matter and should be a drumbeat against this admin along with Epstein pedo crimes.
I am torn about this. I agree with Dan that the 25th Amendment is not a practical solution. However, I also feel that we must constantly push for Trump‘s removal. What I do know, however, is that the focus must be directed at Republican Congressmen, especially senators who approved *every one* of Trump‘s incompetent cabinet members. We must place more blame on them and defeat them in November.
Dem politician posts “demanding” invocation of the 25th Amendment is also a cynical and insulting dodge.
They know how the 25th works. They know it will NEVER happen. But most of all, they know it requires nothing from them.
Clear-eyed talk about impeachment, however, could accomplish something. Dems could say from the outset that there is no reason to expect success, but that the American people deserve to see if there is even a single Republican in Congress who will put the country first. Dems could say they are making clear to the world and to history that Trump’s terroristic threats of genocide belong to him and the Republican Party alone, and not the majority of Americans. Dems could show that they recognize the immense gravity and peril of the moment and are capable of unifying in opposition. Dems could prove they are willing to at least try to use the only power they have.
Of course that’s almost certainly never going to happen either. And in the lead up to November 3, we will be fighting the 2 most potent & pernicious forces threatening the country and the globe: Republicanism, and Dem fecklessness.
Dan’s point is a good one. I think it’s fine if Dems want to say that Trump is obviously unfit and should be removed but focus on the reasons he won’t be removed by the Republican Party. They should make it clear that they are on the hook for the war crimes, the loss of our moral authority and soft power but mostly need to emphasize they are on the hook for skyrocketing healthcare premiums and gas prices and an overall terrible economy.
Trump is a bullshitter. His Radicalized Republican Party knows this. They live to see the opposition squirm. When he pulls this shit they laugh. Is he a F&ck stick, yes. Voting for progressive thinkers … that’s how we get after these MFs. Not the 25th. Again, they laugh at anyone who says it. Put the time and energy and money into people and places who can effect change in this miserable rotten administration…vote them out as fast as possible.
Appreciate all the "disagree" statements and thoughtful argumentation, but I'm with Dan on this one, that this tool is not useful and will not happen any more than a conviction during DJT's 2 previous impeachment trials. As Dan also correctly pointed out, if the GOP Congresspeople didn't convict after being chased by a murderous mob on Jan 6, it ain't never gonna happen, period. And I do not look forward to a President Vance and Veep Mike-f-ing-Johnson. I am somewhat heartened to see GOP calling for his ouster, but still, do not think it can or will happen. What I do also see though, is the Tucker Carlson for '28 camp heating up. What a fun adventure that would be!
As much as we want him gone and he is completely insane, even if it were possible we simply cannot be left with JD Vance (or turn his chances better for the next presidential election!) Just no. It is sickening to have to strategize at all but maybe best to leave the lunatic at the top in, and use that to motivate voters. The whole R system and many people have to crumble, and Dems need to change many things to truly court and win voters. You guys are doing a stellar job of highlighting all of this on the pods. JD as pres? Who can think it? Not me!
Serious 25th Amendment talk from people who know what they're talking about -- that's significant. As others have noticed, the 25th is now out there as more than a pipedream or a rhetorical flourish. However, the 25th wouldn't save us even if it succeeded as written. Look at Congress, especially the Republicans but don't ignore the Democrats who were apparently caught unawares by the advent of Trump II. Look at the Supreme Court majority. Look at the cesspool that what really once was the "party of Lincoln" has become.
The rot goes deep, very deep. I believe it has much to do with the way economic power has been gnawing away at the three constitutional branches of government until it now controls them all -- and the results are beyond disastrous. Did things *have* to get this bad? I'm afraid they did, and I've got my fingers crossed that all those Republican voters from Reagan onward will finally realize what their racism, misogyny, and/or nostalgia for a mythical past has cost us all. Because economic power alone couldn't have got us here without their votes.
I appreciate the fact that you, Miles Taylor and others are explaining why the 25th - as appealing as it may sound - won’t work. We need to put our energy where it matters: calling out his insanity, protesting, talking with others, getting out the vote, voting. Last night, our Wisconsin Supreme Court election was called at 9:00 in favor of the liberal candidate. It wasn’t even close. There are rumors that Wisconsin may be moving from purple to blue. Trump and his sycophants will hang themselves. We need to be ready to step into the mess and restore our democracy.
I disagree that there is no value in talking about the 25 amendment. Of course it can’t happen (until and unless it does, just like every other crazy fucking thing that has already happened), but getting the public comfortable with idea that Trump SHOULD be removed is valuable. Democrats affirming that idea is valuable. Fake it till you make it, just like they do. One thing that led to us being in this mess is a lack of imagination. No one could IMAGINE that the unserious idiot could be elected over the incredibly smart, qualified woman in 2016. And here we are (x2).
The problem is that the complicit media is not broadcasting how this govt. is gaslighting the public. The biggest threat to our national security is the corrupt cabal in the White House. So keep talking about the 25th amendment that won’t meet fruition-it still spotlights a feckless Republican Party.
Exactly! As Rebecca Solnit said in her recent piece (quoting Raskin, I think) - the impossible becomes inevitable when we continue to show up and persist. It's like they do with the 'Big Lie' - we do with the Big Truth - repeat - Trump is unfit and corrupt and needs to be removed via the 25th or impeachment - over and over until the impossible becomes something we can imagine, and then that imagined outcome begins to feel possible, then probable then - inevitable.
https://www.meditationsinanemergency.com/between-the-impossible-and-the-inevitable-the-case-for-defiance-aka-never-f-king-surrender/?ref=meditations-in-an-emergency-newsletter
Pfeiffer once again with the coldest and blackest of bottom lines. Im so tired of the Democrats peddling fantastical scenarios I don’t know what to do with myself. We’ve seen what’s persuasive to voters, in New York, in Texas, in New Jersey etc. Talk about your new, practical ideas to make government work for people. Everything else is unhelpful.
Hard disagree.
Repeating 25A and/or Impeachment because Trump is insane puts it in the media's Overton window, hopefully to the point where we get "Biden is old" levels of coverage.
Yes neither are possible right now but impeachment and removal is a real possibility after the midterms. Repeating removal right now will set that up.
I look at it this way: 25th amendment is a tidy way to remind voters over and over and over that we should never normalize Trump‘s malignant narcissism coupled with his obvious dementia. There is way too much of a tendency by Democrats and the mainstream media to frame Trump‘s words and actions as, at best, the words and actions of a normal president, and at worst, Trump just “being Trump.“ Neither frame is acceptable, and frankly makes the United States an international joke. Yesterday, both voters and people around the world finally got to hear at least some Americans in positions of power acknowledging that we know that the president is a raving lunatic who is unfit for office. I say we keep it up and don’t let Republicans ignore it or brush it off.
Not if the first step for impeachment is for the cabinet to take it to the Congress before they can vote on it.
We're now 3 generations from the last world war. Our voters no longer know what war crimes are or think its a meaningful distinction. Similarly many voters are so used to Trump that his actions seems normal. So i think it helps to remind voters we must draw a line. we have a duty to consider what is unacceptable.
This is spot-on. The 25th amendment talk is like the impeachment talk - it's letting the voters off the hook. The American people voted him in (yeah, i know it was no one reading this who cast a ballot for him) we shall have to collectively resolve this through our selection of Congress.
Thank you, Dan, for the straight talk, clarifying how the 25th amendment actually works, and giving us a path forward!
How does the process of committing war crimes work? How is a leader officially branded war criminal? And if that leader is visiting a European nation can he be arrested on that soil? I know I’m probably just reaching for hope. Putin can’t set foot in the European Union, Canada, Brazil,Japan and Australia.
War crimes matter and should be a drumbeat against this admin along with Epstein pedo crimes.
Great question! I suspect there are many folks who are fuzzy on this process. Dan, can you talk about this in Saturdays’s Q&A Message Box?
I am torn about this. I agree with Dan that the 25th Amendment is not a practical solution. However, I also feel that we must constantly push for Trump‘s removal. What I do know, however, is that the focus must be directed at Republican Congressmen, especially senators who approved *every one* of Trump‘s incompetent cabinet members. We must place more blame on them and defeat them in November.
Dem politician posts “demanding” invocation of the 25th Amendment is also a cynical and insulting dodge.
They know how the 25th works. They know it will NEVER happen. But most of all, they know it requires nothing from them.
Clear-eyed talk about impeachment, however, could accomplish something. Dems could say from the outset that there is no reason to expect success, but that the American people deserve to see if there is even a single Republican in Congress who will put the country first. Dems could say they are making clear to the world and to history that Trump’s terroristic threats of genocide belong to him and the Republican Party alone, and not the majority of Americans. Dems could show that they recognize the immense gravity and peril of the moment and are capable of unifying in opposition. Dems could prove they are willing to at least try to use the only power they have.
Of course that’s almost certainly never going to happen either. And in the lead up to November 3, we will be fighting the 2 most potent & pernicious forces threatening the country and the globe: Republicanism, and Dem fecklessness.
Dan’s point is a good one. I think it’s fine if Dems want to say that Trump is obviously unfit and should be removed but focus on the reasons he won’t be removed by the Republican Party. They should make it clear that they are on the hook for the war crimes, the loss of our moral authority and soft power but mostly need to emphasize they are on the hook for skyrocketing healthcare premiums and gas prices and an overall terrible economy.
Spot on, Dan. People need to own their stuff, work hard, organize and vote this miscreants outta office.
Trump is a bullshitter. His Radicalized Republican Party knows this. They live to see the opposition squirm. When he pulls this shit they laugh. Is he a F&ck stick, yes. Voting for progressive thinkers … that’s how we get after these MFs. Not the 25th. Again, they laugh at anyone who says it. Put the time and energy and money into people and places who can effect change in this miserable rotten administration…vote them out as fast as possible.
Appreciate all the "disagree" statements and thoughtful argumentation, but I'm with Dan on this one, that this tool is not useful and will not happen any more than a conviction during DJT's 2 previous impeachment trials. As Dan also correctly pointed out, if the GOP Congresspeople didn't convict after being chased by a murderous mob on Jan 6, it ain't never gonna happen, period. And I do not look forward to a President Vance and Veep Mike-f-ing-Johnson. I am somewhat heartened to see GOP calling for his ouster, but still, do not think it can or will happen. What I do also see though, is the Tucker Carlson for '28 camp heating up. What a fun adventure that would be!
As much as we want him gone and he is completely insane, even if it were possible we simply cannot be left with JD Vance (or turn his chances better for the next presidential election!) Just no. It is sickening to have to strategize at all but maybe best to leave the lunatic at the top in, and use that to motivate voters. The whole R system and many people have to crumble, and Dems need to change many things to truly court and win voters. You guys are doing a stellar job of highlighting all of this on the pods. JD as pres? Who can think it? Not me!
Serious 25th Amendment talk from people who know what they're talking about -- that's significant. As others have noticed, the 25th is now out there as more than a pipedream or a rhetorical flourish. However, the 25th wouldn't save us even if it succeeded as written. Look at Congress, especially the Republicans but don't ignore the Democrats who were apparently caught unawares by the advent of Trump II. Look at the Supreme Court majority. Look at the cesspool that what really once was the "party of Lincoln" has become.
The rot goes deep, very deep. I believe it has much to do with the way economic power has been gnawing away at the three constitutional branches of government until it now controls them all -- and the results are beyond disastrous. Did things *have* to get this bad? I'm afraid they did, and I've got my fingers crossed that all those Republican voters from Reagan onward will finally realize what their racism, misogyny, and/or nostalgia for a mythical past has cost us all. Because economic power alone couldn't have got us here without their votes.
I appreciate the fact that you, Miles Taylor and others are explaining why the 25th - as appealing as it may sound - won’t work. We need to put our energy where it matters: calling out his insanity, protesting, talking with others, getting out the vote, voting. Last night, our Wisconsin Supreme Court election was called at 9:00 in favor of the liberal candidate. It wasn’t even close. There are rumors that Wisconsin may be moving from purple to blue. Trump and his sycophants will hang themselves. We need to be ready to step into the mess and restore our democracy.