Most of us knew the courts weren't going to save us from MAGA. While this is disappointing it doesn't change the work we have to do and our path to victory. Let's get to work!
Ted Lieu tweeted last night that if this trial isn’t over by the election, then the election will become a referendum on Trump’s immunity, which will drive Dems to the polls. Do you concur?
On December 12, 2000, SCOTUS did a “one off’ and anointed bush II as president even though he lost the popular vote by a half million votes. Eight years later bush left in disgrace with 18% approval, perpetrator of the second worst financial collapse and the longest war in American history.
On May 1, 2024 SCOTUS grants trump full immunity from any and all prosecution as a ‘one off’, fully vindicated, he wins a second term and within a year, putin and trump hug in the oval office as former Presidents Joe Biden and Barack Obama are sentenced to life in jail for “crimes.” Merrick Garland to receive Medal of Honor.
My little fantasy is, if SCOTUS were to grant Trump full immunity on May 1, 2024, Biden would have the Supreme Court arrested on May 2, 2024, overturn the 'immunity' ruling by executive fiat, and order Trump's trial to begin. Hey, why not, after all... Biden now has full immunity!
Sadly, I suspect they're going to slice and dice their way to a fake "compromise" that allows immunity only in the specific areas where Trump needs it.
Boy would that ever be obvious! I'm hoping that would be the last straw for a lot of voters, but at this point I'm no longer sure anything would be a 'last straw' for way too many people...
This is where the MAGA nuts’ logic collides. T has said over and over that he will arrest Biden, but with full immunity, how? Oh, it’s only a crime if you’re not a Republican.
Good point! 'It's OK If You're a Republican' has become a saying. Shortened to IOKIYAR even... that's how many examples of their hypocrisy and bizarre logic are out there.
I read an article in The Guardian that put the blame on Garland and Jack Smith for these cases being pushed to a deadline. In truth, Smith has done a good job, having these cases in a courthouse, ready to go, in a little over 13 months from the time he was finally appointed. He couldn’t just pick up the testimony of the Jan 6 committee. I am sure it was well-done, but relying on the work product of others would be foolish.
It was the dilatory Garland who absolutely screwed this up. He utterly wasted 23 months of the timeline. There are plenty of precedents for conducting Justice Department and Congressional investigations concurrently.
Maybe Garland was a good fit for SCOTUS (surely better than nothing, as it turned out). He appears smart, honest, and was an able prosecutor. But in this role he’s almost useless, Biden’s worst Cabinet officer. He has no executive drive. Imagine a contemplative Patton.
I have a friend who can easily hit a 400 yard golf drive. When he swings, his whole body flexes from his ankles to his shoulders. The ball goes 400 yards… in some direction. Even on 300 yard holes. I call him “all postage, no address”. Garland is the opposite: all address, no postage.
Let’s remember the Federal prosecutors who got Agnew. Nixon was well in the throes of Watergate, and these people took on the urgent task of getting Agnew out of the White House before a Nixon impeachment or resignation. Don’t we all wish Garland had that sense of urgency?
And getting Agnew out really mattered. We would have been able to test the "felon as President" experience. All the same, it was a time when the legal system worked, a subpoena meant something, and even Nixon felt subject to "the law." All the old conventions are gone--and the republicans no longer respect the Constitution or believe in democracy. The conservative movement has rejected governance, for its opposite--making government fail.
"All postage no address." I love when you write in Tom. Just love it. Inside most of your posts is buried a phrase or sentence that lets me breathe and smile for a sec. You have a gift, but you know that. A journalist I think?
Supreme Court History Replay: The same folks who made Bush President now tip the scales for Trump. This infographic shows how John Roberts, Brett Kavanaugh, Amy Coney Barrett, Ted Cruz, Joel Kaplan, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alioto helped stop the vote recount in Florida to get Bush Jr. elected. Surprised by their decision to tilt the scales for Trump?
Thank you for the link. Sure does bring back horrible memories of 2000. We were living in FL at the time. To say we were outraged doesn't come close to how we felt when the decision came down. To think many of the same players could impact us in 2024 is outrageous.
I was a freshman in college in 2000 - I went to a business school and was flabbergasted and brought to tears by what happened in that election, the first I was able to vote in, even though I was largely surrounded by so many Republicans. It still makes me upset to this day!
Can we also get clear that though “violating campaign finance law to pay off a porn star” may sound like another day in the personal life of DJT, what he did was to interfere in the election by paying off a witness to his bad behavior not to give salient info to voters.
A campaign interference felony has diff vibes than a sleazy personal life felony and it is consistent with his other crimes, charged and uncharged.
Dan, serious question. I know we suck at message control and we don’t have a Happy Liberal News Network (HLNN) out there to amplify the messages we do have. But is there *anything* we can do to rebrand this as a campaign interference crime before the trial gets started? We should not even mention the name “Stormy Daniels”. Trump bought off a witness who had info that could have impacted the election and he used campaign finance funds to do it.
If the shoe were on the other foot, the Reps would make this stick to Biden like gum on that shoe. Are we so titillated by the Stormy aspect and eager to point out that Trump and his supporters are hypocrites that we can’t get out of our own way?
Election interference. Like “Russia, if you are listening!” Like “I just want to find 11,780 votes.” It’s the crime he’s has committed in front of us over and over again and if they nail him in NY, he is guilty of election interference. Full stop.
There is no bottom here is there? But--every step toward normalizing this vile attack on democracy and our civil society for Trump's personal benefit and brand aggrandizement has remade America. We are in trouble. We have at least 30% of Americans (maybe more?) who believe the worst kind of lunatic crap--and they are angry, ill informed and prone to violence. Great Replacement Theory--indeed.
Just this morning there was an "in brief" in the local-ish paper about another insurrectionist being convicted. I think that could be a good part of our communication about this. Something like:
Trump and his allies convinced Republicans from across the country to come to DC and block the certification of a free and fair election. Over 749 of these people have been sentenced for their role in trying to overthrow the Constitution. But the powerful and wealthy leaders who summoned them to the capitol remain free, protected by their allies on the Supreme Court. The notoriously corrupt Clarence Thomas sits in judgement of his wife, and protects her. John Roberts and Sam Alito, appointed to the court by a President who himself only reached the White House through partisan Supreme Court interference, sit in judgement of Republican leadership and protect them. And the unscrupulously appointed Neil Gorsuch, Brent Kavanaugh, and Amy Coney Barrett sit in judgement of Trump, the man who gave them their seats on the court, and they protect him. Trump and his circle of sycophants enrich themselves, serve themselves, and protect themselves, and themselves alone. This is MAGA "justice". Because of it, America teeters on the brink of corrupt and criminal authoritarianism. Our single most powerful weapon to fight back is to vote Democrat in November.
...or something like that...
critiques and comments on that construction would be appreciated
Maybe Thomas will take John Oliver’s golden parachute I mean chariot. Loved listening JO yell so coherently about the absurdity of lifelong jobs with zero formal ethical standards. Fuck age: its about the whole judiciary. We need the presidency and every single seat in gov. For me, so hard to stay out of more than despondency. I seem to shut down, though not in action, but inside.
All the legal commentators I’ve heard say it is unthinkable that SCOTUS will side with Trump in the immunity case. I think this decision only makes sense if SCOTUS has already decided to free him of these prosecutions. They are too messy and that was their excuse for intervening in Bush v Gore.
Another thing, all commentators (at least the liberal ones) take it for granted that Trump will be found guilty. But it is REALLY hard to convict celebrities of ANYTHING, no matter how strong the evidence. Remember OJ? No trial before the election means no conviction before the election. This is true. It also means no acquittal.
Federal prosecutors have a 98% conviction rate. They do not go to trial with a case that is either ill-prepared or of dubious outcome. This is true to the extent that it is big news when they lose.
I understand that there is strong evidence against Trump, and he probably deserves to be convicted. But I think people are underestimating just how hard it might be to convict a celebrity like Trump, despite his recent losses in civil court. I hope I’m wrong. But the left is generally taking a conviction for granted. For that matter, so does Trump’s legal team (their strategy of delay doesn’t make sense if they think an acquittal is likely). And probably SCOTUS also thinks a conviction is likely or they wouldn’t have delayed the trial. I think that is an oversight.
Thanks for sharing this.I had the same fear running through my head, too. The absolute worst case scenario is a trial before the election that ends with a jury finding him not guilty. That would create a permission structure for a huge number of undecideds to vote for him.
It also means that Trump will be able to continue railing against ‘Biden’s politicized DOJ”, and compare himself to Navalny with impunity until the election..
F 'em. We are the ones we have been waiting for. We are the change we seek. Or as another memorable former once said, the only thing we have to fear is, fear itself.
They want you to be afraid. They want you to give up.
Ok. If you’re not going to be despondent (yet), neither will I. However, Biden should do something about the Court in his second term. Maybe it’s ending lifetime appointments. Maybe it’s adding justices. But something needs to be done. They’ve been allowed to screw the American people over long enough.
Not only that, but I keep reading that the population has grown tremendously since we settled on nine justices, which makes the idea of expanding the court logical for other reasons as well! Personally, I think the SC should have to be composed of half D's and half R's, with the head of the court as a possible deciding vote. Of course, if no justice can be found who isn't able to be totally nonpartisan that wouldn't work either.
Well said: Donald Trump is running for President for one reason and one reason only — to avoid accountability for crimes he committed. He’s not thinking about you or your family. He only cares about himself. If elected, his first act will be to pardon himself because he believes that rich and powerful people don’t have to play by the same rules as the rest of us.
I find the clarity and enormity of this distillation from Simon Rosenberg - if conveyed to voters, though maybe not all at once ;) - more promising for the cause of defeating Trump than anything the courts can do:
We cannot forget for one moment what Trump’s agenda for the country is: He wants Putin to win, the West to lose. The border to be in chaos, and migrants to keep flowing into the country. The economy to crash. Women, people of color to lose more freedoms and rights. The planet to warm faster. 10 year olds to carry their rapist's baby to term, and for more women to die on an operating room table. Tens of millions to lose their health insurance. More dead kids in schools. Verified rapists in positions of authority. A restoration of pre-Civil Rights era white supremacy. Big tax cuts for their donors, higher deficits and less for everyone else. Books banned across the US. Seniors to pay more for insulin and prescription drugs. Foreign governments free to pollute our daily discourse and harass our citizens. Teenagers to work night shifts in meat packing plants and not go to school. The minimum wage to stay at $7.25. Mass arrests and mass deportations of immigrants long settled in the US. Insurrectionists to get pardoned. To end American democracy for all time.
This is excellent! I might add something about plans to cut Social Security and Medicare, and corporations free of all environmental regulations that protect American citizens from toxic pollutants.
When not turning off thoughts of SCOTUS because I'm too infuriated, I imagine the world where the Court issues a late ruling that the POTUS does not have immunity, but with no conviction and despite Biden's electoral promise Trump wins. Guess what SCOUTS? Your late ruling will mean NOTHING. Trump will act as if he has immunity and what will anyone be able to do? An administration willing to take extreme actions and violate laws with impunity? A defanged Congress? SCOTUS security guards?
But thanks to Dan and John Roberts: I am completely clearheaded about the fact the outcome of our looming national nightmare is entirely dependent on voters.
With way too many of them being convinced that Biden is old and doddering...talk about a national nightmare! I am holding out hope that the polls are wrong and that more people will wake up to what Trump is about before November.
The final deciders regarding Trump's illegal efforts to overturn the legitimate 2020 election of Joe Biden is we the people! Our right wing, Federalist Society, royalist loving SCOTUS is just doing what we would expect..helping out Trump..
Trump will be defeated again by an election he doesn't recognize.
Most of us knew the courts weren't going to save us from MAGA. While this is disappointing it doesn't change the work we have to do and our path to victory. Let's get to work!
Exactly right, IMHO.
Ted Lieu tweeted last night that if this trial isn’t over by the election, then the election will become a referendum on Trump’s immunity, which will drive Dems to the polls. Do you concur?
Interesting. Democrats could put Trump's potential future criminality, rather than what he's already done, front and center.
Yes!!
On December 12, 2000, SCOTUS did a “one off’ and anointed bush II as president even though he lost the popular vote by a half million votes. Eight years later bush left in disgrace with 18% approval, perpetrator of the second worst financial collapse and the longest war in American history.
On May 1, 2024 SCOTUS grants trump full immunity from any and all prosecution as a ‘one off’, fully vindicated, he wins a second term and within a year, putin and trump hug in the oval office as former Presidents Joe Biden and Barack Obama are sentenced to life in jail for “crimes.” Merrick Garland to receive Medal of Honor.
An overdramatization? What do you think?
My little fantasy is, if SCOTUS were to grant Trump full immunity on May 1, 2024, Biden would have the Supreme Court arrested on May 2, 2024, overturn the 'immunity' ruling by executive fiat, and order Trump's trial to begin. Hey, why not, after all... Biden now has full immunity!
Sadly, I suspect they're going to slice and dice their way to a fake "compromise" that allows immunity only in the specific areas where Trump needs it.
Boy would that ever be obvious! I'm hoping that would be the last straw for a lot of voters, but at this point I'm no longer sure anything would be a 'last straw' for way too many people...
whatever it takes...........
I like your kind of thinking.
Actually, it's born of an extreme sense of frustration!
This is where the MAGA nuts’ logic collides. T has said over and over that he will arrest Biden, but with full immunity, how? Oh, it’s only a crime if you’re not a Republican.
Good point! 'It's OK If You're a Republican' has become a saying. Shortened to IOKIYAR even... that's how many examples of their hypocrisy and bizarre logic are out there.
I read an article in The Guardian that put the blame on Garland and Jack Smith for these cases being pushed to a deadline. In truth, Smith has done a good job, having these cases in a courthouse, ready to go, in a little over 13 months from the time he was finally appointed. He couldn’t just pick up the testimony of the Jan 6 committee. I am sure it was well-done, but relying on the work product of others would be foolish.
It was the dilatory Garland who absolutely screwed this up. He utterly wasted 23 months of the timeline. There are plenty of precedents for conducting Justice Department and Congressional investigations concurrently.
Maybe Garland was a good fit for SCOTUS (surely better than nothing, as it turned out). He appears smart, honest, and was an able prosecutor. But in this role he’s almost useless, Biden’s worst Cabinet officer. He has no executive drive. Imagine a contemplative Patton.
I have a friend who can easily hit a 400 yard golf drive. When he swings, his whole body flexes from his ankles to his shoulders. The ball goes 400 yards… in some direction. Even on 300 yard holes. I call him “all postage, no address”. Garland is the opposite: all address, no postage.
Let’s remember the Federal prosecutors who got Agnew. Nixon was well in the throes of Watergate, and these people took on the urgent task of getting Agnew out of the White House before a Nixon impeachment or resignation. Don’t we all wish Garland had that sense of urgency?
So let’s go win this politically.
And getting Agnew out really mattered. We would have been able to test the "felon as President" experience. All the same, it was a time when the legal system worked, a subpoena meant something, and even Nixon felt subject to "the law." All the old conventions are gone--and the republicans no longer respect the Constitution or believe in democracy. The conservative movement has rejected governance, for its opposite--making government fail.
This is one reason why we older folk (sorry Tony, you know I am a fan) are critical. We hold the institutional memory.
We have a role to play.
"All postage no address." I love when you write in Tom. Just love it. Inside most of your posts is buried a phrase or sentence that lets me breathe and smile for a sec. You have a gift, but you know that. A journalist I think?
I love that too... will probably steal it when talking with family or friends! However I will give Tom all the credit. :-)
I am flattered! No attribution required.
Amy, i enjoy your posts too. Not a journalist but a boring retired bank technology exec.
Supreme Court History Replay: The same folks who made Bush President now tip the scales for Trump. This infographic shows how John Roberts, Brett Kavanaugh, Amy Coney Barrett, Ted Cruz, Joel Kaplan, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alioto helped stop the vote recount in Florida to get Bush Jr. elected. Surprised by their decision to tilt the scales for Trump?
https://thedemlabs.org/2024/02/28/maga-supreme-court-justices-tip-the-scales-for-trump/
Thank you for the link. Sure does bring back horrible memories of 2000. We were living in FL at the time. To say we were outraged doesn't come close to how we felt when the decision came down. To think many of the same players could impact us in 2024 is outrageous.
I was a freshman in college in 2000 - I went to a business school and was flabbergasted and brought to tears by what happened in that election, the first I was able to vote in, even though I was largely surrounded by so many Republicans. It still makes me upset to this day!
Yes
I went to the link. It is EXCELLENT. I am using it in class tomorrow! Florida--where ethe sun never sets on the WOKE!
Can we also get clear that though “violating campaign finance law to pay off a porn star” may sound like another day in the personal life of DJT, what he did was to interfere in the election by paying off a witness to his bad behavior not to give salient info to voters.
A campaign interference felony has diff vibes than a sleazy personal life felony and it is consistent with his other crimes, charged and uncharged.
Dan, serious question. I know we suck at message control and we don’t have a Happy Liberal News Network (HLNN) out there to amplify the messages we do have. But is there *anything* we can do to rebrand this as a campaign interference crime before the trial gets started? We should not even mention the name “Stormy Daniels”. Trump bought off a witness who had info that could have impacted the election and he used campaign finance funds to do it.
If the shoe were on the other foot, the Reps would make this stick to Biden like gum on that shoe. Are we so titillated by the Stormy aspect and eager to point out that Trump and his supporters are hypocrites that we can’t get out of our own way?
Election interference. Like “Russia, if you are listening!” Like “I just want to find 11,780 votes.” It’s the crime he’s has committed in front of us over and over again and if they nail him in NY, he is guilty of election interference. Full stop.
Can we do that?
I thought Rachel Maddow was good at this.
There is no bottom here is there? But--every step toward normalizing this vile attack on democracy and our civil society for Trump's personal benefit and brand aggrandizement has remade America. We are in trouble. We have at least 30% of Americans (maybe more?) who believe the worst kind of lunatic crap--and they are angry, ill informed and prone to violence. Great Replacement Theory--indeed.
On the bottom right of your post, across from the Like, Reply, etc. are there little dots. Click on that and you get to edit or delete.
thanks!
Don't you love invisible menus?
Looking at you, Apple.
The case for voting for democrats up and down the ballot gets clearer and clearer. We need to expand the court. !!
Just this morning there was an "in brief" in the local-ish paper about another insurrectionist being convicted. I think that could be a good part of our communication about this. Something like:
Trump and his allies convinced Republicans from across the country to come to DC and block the certification of a free and fair election. Over 749 of these people have been sentenced for their role in trying to overthrow the Constitution. But the powerful and wealthy leaders who summoned them to the capitol remain free, protected by their allies on the Supreme Court. The notoriously corrupt Clarence Thomas sits in judgement of his wife, and protects her. John Roberts and Sam Alito, appointed to the court by a President who himself only reached the White House through partisan Supreme Court interference, sit in judgement of Republican leadership and protect them. And the unscrupulously appointed Neil Gorsuch, Brent Kavanaugh, and Amy Coney Barrett sit in judgement of Trump, the man who gave them their seats on the court, and they protect him. Trump and his circle of sycophants enrich themselves, serve themselves, and protect themselves, and themselves alone. This is MAGA "justice". Because of it, America teeters on the brink of corrupt and criminal authoritarianism. Our single most powerful weapon to fight back is to vote Democrat in November.
...or something like that...
critiques and comments on that construction would be appreciated
Maybe Thomas will take John Oliver’s golden parachute I mean chariot. Loved listening JO yell so coherently about the absurdity of lifelong jobs with zero formal ethical standards. Fuck age: its about the whole judiciary. We need the presidency and every single seat in gov. For me, so hard to stay out of more than despondency. I seem to shut down, though not in action, but inside.
I totally get it, Amy.... it's starting to feel like we're being shut out on all sides... the Fani Willis thing, now this.
No--not very likely......although it does mean a Winnebago in a Walmart parking lot if he so chooses!
No, it is just a fantasy.
All the legal commentators I’ve heard say it is unthinkable that SCOTUS will side with Trump in the immunity case. I think this decision only makes sense if SCOTUS has already decided to free him of these prosecutions. They are too messy and that was their excuse for intervening in Bush v Gore.
Another thing, all commentators (at least the liberal ones) take it for granted that Trump will be found guilty. But it is REALLY hard to convict celebrities of ANYTHING, no matter how strong the evidence. Remember OJ? No trial before the election means no conviction before the election. This is true. It also means no acquittal.
Federal prosecutors have a 98% conviction rate. They do not go to trial with a case that is either ill-prepared or of dubious outcome. This is true to the extent that it is big news when they lose.
I understand that there is strong evidence against Trump, and he probably deserves to be convicted. But I think people are underestimating just how hard it might be to convict a celebrity like Trump, despite his recent losses in civil court. I hope I’m wrong. But the left is generally taking a conviction for granted. For that matter, so does Trump’s legal team (their strategy of delay doesn’t make sense if they think an acquittal is likely). And probably SCOTUS also thinks a conviction is likely or they wouldn’t have delayed the trial. I think that is an oversight.
Thanks for sharing this.I had the same fear running through my head, too. The absolute worst case scenario is a trial before the election that ends with a jury finding him not guilty. That would create a permission structure for a huge number of undecideds to vote for him.
It also means that Trump will be able to continue railing against ‘Biden’s politicized DOJ”, and compare himself to Navalny with impunity until the election..
Yes--but defeat is the only thing that will make him stop anyway.
F 'em. We are the ones we have been waiting for. We are the change we seek. Or as another memorable former once said, the only thing we have to fear is, fear itself.
They want you to be afraid. They want you to give up.
This is a distraction.
DO THE WORK.
Ok. If you’re not going to be despondent (yet), neither will I. However, Biden should do something about the Court in his second term. Maybe it’s ending lifetime appointments. Maybe it’s adding justices. But something needs to be done. They’ve been allowed to screw the American people over long enough.
Not only that, but I keep reading that the population has grown tremendously since we settled on nine justices, which makes the idea of expanding the court logical for other reasons as well! Personally, I think the SC should have to be composed of half D's and half R's, with the head of the court as a possible deciding vote. Of course, if no justice can be found who isn't able to be totally nonpartisan that wouldn't work either.
That’s how it would be in a sane world.
Well said: Donald Trump is running for President for one reason and one reason only — to avoid accountability for crimes he committed. He’s not thinking about you or your family. He only cares about himself. If elected, his first act will be to pardon himself because he believes that rich and powerful people don’t have to play by the same rules as the rest of us.
I find the clarity and enormity of this distillation from Simon Rosenberg - if conveyed to voters, though maybe not all at once ;) - more promising for the cause of defeating Trump than anything the courts can do:
We cannot forget for one moment what Trump’s agenda for the country is: He wants Putin to win, the West to lose. The border to be in chaos, and migrants to keep flowing into the country. The economy to crash. Women, people of color to lose more freedoms and rights. The planet to warm faster. 10 year olds to carry their rapist's baby to term, and for more women to die on an operating room table. Tens of millions to lose their health insurance. More dead kids in schools. Verified rapists in positions of authority. A restoration of pre-Civil Rights era white supremacy. Big tax cuts for their donors, higher deficits and less for everyone else. Books banned across the US. Seniors to pay more for insulin and prescription drugs. Foreign governments free to pollute our daily discourse and harass our citizens. Teenagers to work night shifts in meat packing plants and not go to school. The minimum wage to stay at $7.25. Mass arrests and mass deportations of immigrants long settled in the US. Insurrectionists to get pardoned. To end American democracy for all time.
This is excellent! I might add something about plans to cut Social Security and Medicare, and corporations free of all environmental regulations that protect American citizens from toxic pollutants.
When not turning off thoughts of SCOTUS because I'm too infuriated, I imagine the world where the Court issues a late ruling that the POTUS does not have immunity, but with no conviction and despite Biden's electoral promise Trump wins. Guess what SCOUTS? Your late ruling will mean NOTHING. Trump will act as if he has immunity and what will anyone be able to do? An administration willing to take extreme actions and violate laws with impunity? A defanged Congress? SCOTUS security guards?
But thanks to Dan and John Roberts: I am completely clearheaded about the fact the outcome of our looming national nightmare is entirely dependent on voters.
With way too many of them being convinced that Biden is old and doddering...talk about a national nightmare! I am holding out hope that the polls are wrong and that more people will wake up to what Trump is about before November.
How about this simple message on this etc. “Fuck age: its the judiary.” Or: Guck age, it is everything stupid.” (It is age and Gaza now tho.)
The final deciders regarding Trump's illegal efforts to overturn the legitimate 2020 election of Joe Biden is we the people! Our right wing, Federalist Society, royalist loving SCOTUS is just doing what we would expect..helping out Trump..
Trump will be defeated again by an election he doesn't recognize.