Thank you, Dan. And please let's not forgot the need to push the media re: context. Palestinian freedoms have been trampled upon for so long; some living under conditions see the use of force as their only remaining option for resistance. One maybe can understand Israel's immediate, forceful response to this terrible attack. That doesn't mean that war must continue, or that people in Gaza must be starved into submission.
Thanks for saying this. Hamas and Hezbollah are brutal terrorist organizations, but Israel’s equally brutal response (if they react as usual) and its longterm inhuman treatment of the Palestinians is a big factor in this depressing and seemingly hopeless equation.
No, Israel is NOT equally brutal. IDF does not shoot elderly people at bus stops, target families in their homes for death or as hostages, parade captured women in the street naked and post video of that online. In fact, Israel calls Palestinian residents to warn them on an impending attack on a residential building that also contains Hamas (according to 2 separate interviews of Israelis on MSNBC). Yes, civilians are killed given the population density of Gaza and location of Hamas rocket launchers next to schools, etc. Today is not the day to point out Israeli transgressions. False equivalencies shows your lack of knowledge of the facts about this attack by Hamas. For facts, the ADL does a good job of tracking the horrors of Hamas that I choose not to search for online out of disgust and sadness.
If only Israel and Palestine were as clean and sterile as you would like.
"Yes, civilians are killed", but that fact is immediately whitewashed due to a Palestinian population density?
The population density is due to Israel denying any ability to expand. Israel has prided itself on its ability to deny expansion. That very density is caused by Israeli policy, but you do not mention that.
This is *apartheid*. You can imply to others you know the "facts" but sorry, your "facts" are partisan.
No whitewwashing intended. Rockets fired into Gaza will kill many despite warnings. Cannot hit Hamas targets without killing civilians due to Hamas using residents as a shield and so many people live at target l;ocations (high density urban). Cannot expect Hamas to fire rockets specifically targeting Israeli civilian areas (plus the other atrocities this time) and not expect Israelis to defend themselves. That said, the failure of past diplomacy to set up a two-state solution with definitive boundaries is very much at fault. Palestinians voted in Hamas to lead them in Gaza, and the Abbas Administration leaders in the West Bank are weak and ineffective. Current right-wing Israeli government has been provocative as well. The deal with the Saudis was to have a Palestinian component. If that is stalled now due to attack, then full scale war ahead.
Appreciate the continued focus on the issues, that makes things so much more constructive; I'm not going to try convince you of anything but reply with my experience.
I'm a retired Lieutenant Commander with 2 deployments to OIF/OEF. I then trained US Navy expeditionary warfare personnel for combat deployment(s) for OEF.
To my personal regret, I understand war and its conduct.
I understand the components, the language and the day-to-day operations. I've done it and I've done it in a complex, highly charged and dynamic Middle-eastern cultural environment.
As far as war in the Middle East goes, I've been there and done that (and by strange co-incidence am actually wearing one of the t-shirts. Weird.)
I can tell you from personal experience there are three realities:
1. The Actual Reality. What happened, why it happened. The Actual Thing experienced by People Who Were There.
2. Headquarters Reality. This is NOT Actual Reality but a shadow thereof. It is at best 1st person accounts, but in practice this is not possible and information goes into the inevitable process that happens when many people attach to any information. It goes into spirals depending on job, viewpoint, stakeholder position, etc., etc., etc. If you're lucky some of the Actual Reality gets captured but that can take *weeks*. Fog of War is real and you operate on slim intelligence in a wicked environment where mistakes harm people in permanent ways.
3. Public Reality. "I saw it on the news...", "I have a friend in Tel Aviv...", "My friend has a friend there...", "I read the press releases...", "I've been paying attention all along...", "I am a friend of Israel..", I am a friend of Palestine...", etc. forever. None of this is Actual Reality, it is all the deeply flawed impressions from 5,700 miles away - the distance from Tel Aviv to New York.
Public Reality is dangerous as fuck because it is based on flawed information and is used politically.
Wow, Thank you for explaining the 3 realities based on your extensive military career, and thank you for your service. My personal situation now is having a nephew-in-law who is an Israeli living in the US. His journalist friend (whom I met in Dallas) was killed, his wife was killed, 2 of his children were shot but will survive I hope, and one child was taken hostage. I feel my nephew's pain and trauma, and that makes it real for me. Perception is reality in this case.
Is it really surprising that Republicans are using this as an opportunity to attack Biden and Democrats? The bigger problems are that the mainstream media won’t push back against these lies and those who believe them won’t question it. On the PSTW special, Tommy and Ben brought up the Fox correspondent who pushed back on the money issue, and said she’s been ostracized, rather than the narrative being corrected.
JD Vance is a monster---but it shows the blunt force political trauma that ignorance, hatred and lies might produce. Clearing the way for anything like a reasonable conversation is so difficult. Thank YOU Dan. I also listened to POD SAVE THE WORLD and I recommend doing so when you have time. There are only a few clear and realistic paths out of this ongoing nightmare between Israel and the Palestinians, and it all feels further away today.
This was supposed to be a reply to Sonoma Susie, but somehow it posted as an independent comment.
I agree. Their brutality is very different. Like pancaking a populated 14 story apartment building with some semblance of a warning but without adequate time for residents to flee. Or occupying Gaza for 38 years. I don’t have any patience for a back and forth about whose inhumanity has the most style points. For some it never seems to be time to talk about Israeli transgressions.
I am not anti-Israel; I am anti blind Israeli defender, especially one who has the nerve to tell anyone “today is not the day” to say something germane.
The horrific attack on Israel was a pogram and worse. However, I am in full agreement with Ben Wittes's sober advice in The Bulwark today: "With the Israeli body count rising by the hour, do not quickly change the subject to the crimes or misdeeds of the Israeli side or the oppression of Palestinians. Don’t be too quick to tell us about the “context” of this attack. There’s a place for that conversation, of course; it’s ongoing every day; and it’s legitimate. But 9/11 was not the day to discuss the errors of US foreign policy. The day ISIS attacked Paris and killed 100 people was not the day to lecture France about its sins. And if your response to 300 people getting killed in Israel is to wag your finger at Israelis and tell them how they brought it on themselves, you’re justifying murder—whether you understand that you are or not."
Good lord. I've heard all of these, and when I posted a map that shows the land loss for Palestinians (vetted by my husband, the historian) on FaceBook, I got a wild message from a woman I know from my doctoral program stating that Israelis are indigenous to the land there, according to biblical history. She said anyone who reads the bible knows this, so there is that faction as well. Tommy and Ben's podcast was great, and for even more elucidation, the pod they posted last summer (https://crooked.com/podcast/israel-on-the-brink/) really explored the roots of this issue in an excellent way. I found it really enlightening, particularly amid the sound and fury of right-wing bullshit about Palestine.
"Taxpayers' money" is obviously a total fabrication (I,e., baldfaced lie) and should be treated as ridiculous . The "money is fungible" is more complicated, but because most people can't cope with complex answers, simply noting that the funds are currently in Qatar and totally unspent should be sufficient.
The timing, the weapons used, the bloodthirsty tactics, the ready messages to exploit - this all says Wagner Group to me.
Tens of thousands of Wagner mercs have been set loose in the world. Suddenly we get a popup group in Palestine of hardcore ruthless ex-con motherfuckers ready to commit war crimes and attack civilians en masse?
Wagner. It stinks of Wagner.
Wagner mercs only work for money.
You go right ahead and let the play out in your mind.
Remember, Bibi has been servicing the Israeli hard right to return to power and the Israeli hard right wants Palestine wiped off the map.
All I can say is I am ill at all this. Friends and family have people kidnapped and killed. Anyone with any connection to Israel has some relation to what happened. This is all beyond awful and what is coming will be worse. I fear the complete obliteration of Palestinians. And many, many innocent people dying. People who have fought for change. I am super worried about Joe and Kamala's popularity, even though they are my people. With the EC, if the other guy gets in, everything will go up in smoke. I am sorry to use this place for my own pain, but I am sure it mirrors all of yours, and you are my people. Thanks Dan for your continued work on misinformation.
Thanks, Dan. This is incredibly helpful. The thing magats have been shrieking about at me as I push back since JD Vance tweeted his lies is that “money is fungible.” What’s a good, succinct response to that nonsense?
Hey Dan--great article as usual. Just an FYI that clicking the red Share button below the sentence that calls on us to share the article with our network results in displaying one of your articles on the Biden economy, not this one.
EDIT: I had to go back to find the specific sentence where the link to a different article exists--it's the red Share button below this sentence: "If you find this post helpful, please share it with your network."
Thanks. Been pushing back all weekend. This is so daunting. Fucking Tim Scott and JD Vance. They are gleeful in their lies.
Thank you, Dan. And please let's not forgot the need to push the media re: context. Palestinian freedoms have been trampled upon for so long; some living under conditions see the use of force as their only remaining option for resistance. One maybe can understand Israel's immediate, forceful response to this terrible attack. That doesn't mean that war must continue, or that people in Gaza must be starved into submission.
Thanks for saying this. Hamas and Hezbollah are brutal terrorist organizations, but Israel’s equally brutal response (if they react as usual) and its longterm inhuman treatment of the Palestinians is a big factor in this depressing and seemingly hopeless equation.
No, Israel is NOT equally brutal. IDF does not shoot elderly people at bus stops, target families in their homes for death or as hostages, parade captured women in the street naked and post video of that online. In fact, Israel calls Palestinian residents to warn them on an impending attack on a residential building that also contains Hamas (according to 2 separate interviews of Israelis on MSNBC). Yes, civilians are killed given the population density of Gaza and location of Hamas rocket launchers next to schools, etc. Today is not the day to point out Israeli transgressions. False equivalencies shows your lack of knowledge of the facts about this attack by Hamas. For facts, the ADL does a good job of tracking the horrors of Hamas that I choose not to search for online out of disgust and sadness.
If only Israel and Palestine were as clean and sterile as you would like.
"Yes, civilians are killed", but that fact is immediately whitewashed due to a Palestinian population density?
The population density is due to Israel denying any ability to expand. Israel has prided itself on its ability to deny expansion. That very density is caused by Israeli policy, but you do not mention that.
This is *apartheid*. You can imply to others you know the "facts" but sorry, your "facts" are partisan.
No whitewwashing intended. Rockets fired into Gaza will kill many despite warnings. Cannot hit Hamas targets without killing civilians due to Hamas using residents as a shield and so many people live at target l;ocations (high density urban). Cannot expect Hamas to fire rockets specifically targeting Israeli civilian areas (plus the other atrocities this time) and not expect Israelis to defend themselves. That said, the failure of past diplomacy to set up a two-state solution with definitive boundaries is very much at fault. Palestinians voted in Hamas to lead them in Gaza, and the Abbas Administration leaders in the West Bank are weak and ineffective. Current right-wing Israeli government has been provocative as well. The deal with the Saudis was to have a Palestinian component. If that is stalled now due to attack, then full scale war ahead.
Appreciate the continued focus on the issues, that makes things so much more constructive; I'm not going to try convince you of anything but reply with my experience.
I'm a retired Lieutenant Commander with 2 deployments to OIF/OEF. I then trained US Navy expeditionary warfare personnel for combat deployment(s) for OEF.
To my personal regret, I understand war and its conduct.
I understand the components, the language and the day-to-day operations. I've done it and I've done it in a complex, highly charged and dynamic Middle-eastern cultural environment.
As far as war in the Middle East goes, I've been there and done that (and by strange co-incidence am actually wearing one of the t-shirts. Weird.)
I can tell you from personal experience there are three realities:
1. The Actual Reality. What happened, why it happened. The Actual Thing experienced by People Who Were There.
2. Headquarters Reality. This is NOT Actual Reality but a shadow thereof. It is at best 1st person accounts, but in practice this is not possible and information goes into the inevitable process that happens when many people attach to any information. It goes into spirals depending on job, viewpoint, stakeholder position, etc., etc., etc. If you're lucky some of the Actual Reality gets captured but that can take *weeks*. Fog of War is real and you operate on slim intelligence in a wicked environment where mistakes harm people in permanent ways.
3. Public Reality. "I saw it on the news...", "I have a friend in Tel Aviv...", "My friend has a friend there...", "I read the press releases...", "I've been paying attention all along...", "I am a friend of Israel..", I am a friend of Palestine...", etc. forever. None of this is Actual Reality, it is all the deeply flawed impressions from 5,700 miles away - the distance from Tel Aviv to New York.
Public Reality is dangerous as fuck because it is based on flawed information and is used politically.
Wow, Thank you for explaining the 3 realities based on your extensive military career, and thank you for your service. My personal situation now is having a nephew-in-law who is an Israeli living in the US. His journalist friend (whom I met in Dallas) was killed, his wife was killed, 2 of his children were shot but will survive I hope, and one child was taken hostage. I feel my nephew's pain and trauma, and that makes it real for me. Perception is reality in this case.
Is it really surprising that Republicans are using this as an opportunity to attack Biden and Democrats? The bigger problems are that the mainstream media won’t push back against these lies and those who believe them won’t question it. On the PSTW special, Tommy and Ben brought up the Fox correspondent who pushed back on the money issue, and said she’s been ostracized, rather than the narrative being corrected.
Thank you, Dan. As always, a good source of reliable information just when we need it most.
JD Vance is a monster---but it shows the blunt force political trauma that ignorance, hatred and lies might produce. Clearing the way for anything like a reasonable conversation is so difficult. Thank YOU Dan. I also listened to POD SAVE THE WORLD and I recommend doing so when you have time. There are only a few clear and realistic paths out of this ongoing nightmare between Israel and the Palestinians, and it all feels further away today.
This was supposed to be a reply to Sonoma Susie, but somehow it posted as an independent comment.
I agree. Their brutality is very different. Like pancaking a populated 14 story apartment building with some semblance of a warning but without adequate time for residents to flee. Or occupying Gaza for 38 years. I don’t have any patience for a back and forth about whose inhumanity has the most style points. For some it never seems to be time to talk about Israeli transgressions.
I am not anti-Israel; I am anti blind Israeli defender, especially one who has the nerve to tell anyone “today is not the day” to say something germane.
Thanks Dan. Here's another thoughtful piece - "How Not to Respond to a Terrorist Attack" by Benjamin Wittes.
https://www.dogshirtdaily.com/p/how-not-to-respond-to-a-terrorist?utm_medium=reader2
(You can read without subscribing by clicking "continue reading")
The horrific attack on Israel was a pogram and worse. However, I am in full agreement with Ben Wittes's sober advice in The Bulwark today: "With the Israeli body count rising by the hour, do not quickly change the subject to the crimes or misdeeds of the Israeli side or the oppression of Palestinians. Don’t be too quick to tell us about the “context” of this attack. There’s a place for that conversation, of course; it’s ongoing every day; and it’s legitimate. But 9/11 was not the day to discuss the errors of US foreign policy. The day ISIS attacked Paris and killed 100 people was not the day to lecture France about its sins. And if your response to 300 people getting killed in Israel is to wag your finger at Israelis and tell them how they brought it on themselves, you’re justifying murder—whether you understand that you are or not."
Good lord. I've heard all of these, and when I posted a map that shows the land loss for Palestinians (vetted by my husband, the historian) on FaceBook, I got a wild message from a woman I know from my doctoral program stating that Israelis are indigenous to the land there, according to biblical history. She said anyone who reads the bible knows this, so there is that faction as well. Tommy and Ben's podcast was great, and for even more elucidation, the pod they posted last summer (https://crooked.com/podcast/israel-on-the-brink/) really explored the roots of this issue in an excellent way. I found it really enlightening, particularly amid the sound and fury of right-wing bullshit about Palestine.
"Taxpayers' money" is obviously a total fabrication (I,e., baldfaced lie) and should be treated as ridiculous . The "money is fungible" is more complicated, but because most people can't cope with complex answers, simply noting that the funds are currently in Qatar and totally unspent should be sufficient.
Nice capture Dan, thank you for another post.
This whole attack stinks. Everything about it.
The timing, the weapons used, the bloodthirsty tactics, the ready messages to exploit - this all says Wagner Group to me.
Tens of thousands of Wagner mercs have been set loose in the world. Suddenly we get a popup group in Palestine of hardcore ruthless ex-con motherfuckers ready to commit war crimes and attack civilians en masse?
Wagner. It stinks of Wagner.
Wagner mercs only work for money.
You go right ahead and let the play out in your mind.
Remember, Bibi has been servicing the Israeli hard right to return to power and the Israeli hard right wants Palestine wiped off the map.
Where did all the mercs and weapons come from?
Why now?
Who's paying the bills?
This whole thing stinks to high heaven.
Thanks Dan, this is incredibly helpful.
All I can say is I am ill at all this. Friends and family have people kidnapped and killed. Anyone with any connection to Israel has some relation to what happened. This is all beyond awful and what is coming will be worse. I fear the complete obliteration of Palestinians. And many, many innocent people dying. People who have fought for change. I am super worried about Joe and Kamala's popularity, even though they are my people. With the EC, if the other guy gets in, everything will go up in smoke. I am sorry to use this place for my own pain, but I am sure it mirrors all of yours, and you are my people. Thanks Dan for your continued work on misinformation.
Thanks, Dan. This is incredibly helpful. The thing magats have been shrieking about at me as I push back since JD Vance tweeted his lies is that “money is fungible.” What’s a good, succinct response to that nonsense?
Please fix! The share button brings up your piece on Bidenomics
Hey Dan--great article as usual. Just an FYI that clicking the red Share button below the sentence that calls on us to share the article with our network results in displaying one of your articles on the Biden economy, not this one.
EDIT: I had to go back to find the specific sentence where the link to a different article exists--it's the red Share button below this sentence: "If you find this post helpful, please share it with your network."
Good catch
Thanks for the heads up.